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Info: Vortech supercharger

Table of Contents
[gti-vr6] Eaton Supercharger/Vortech "Russell" <gshock@linkline> Wed, 11 Nov 1998 06:37:29 -0800
[gti-vr6] Vortech & Eaton Jeff Storey <storey@intr> Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:51:59 -0500
RE: [gti-vr6] Vortech AMS Kit "Patrick Sherman" <patrick@eurospeed> Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:33:55 -0800
Re: [gti-vr6] Vortech & Eaton U1arunit@aol Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:24:08 EST
Re: [gti-vr6] Vortech AMS Kit Christopher Perry <cperry2@home> Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:49:03 -0800
Re: [gti-vr6] *long* Re: Eaton Supercharger/Vortech "Joshua Murray" <germancarman@worldnet.att> Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:50:08 -0800
[gti-vr6] Nik Saran Superchargers Anthony Eaton <tamrac@erols> Sat, 19 Jun 1999 16:59:01 -0400



From gti-vr6-owner@dev.tivoli Fri Nov 20 10:41 CST 1998
From: "Russell" <gshock@linkline>
To: "Eric Nareshni" <ericn@supremepower>, "ben t" <ibnt@erols>,
Subject: [gti-vr6] Eaton Supercharger/Vortech
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 06:37:29 -0800
Cc: "VR6 LIST" <gti-vr6@dev.tivoli>
 
I wasn't going to comment on this but...

I've been recently taking video footage of the AMS Supercharger and let me
tell you, IT IS NOTHING BUT PHENOMENAL!    The installation is very clean
and I assure you, if you ever get a ride in a Vortex Supercharged VR6(270hp
on an all stock motor)- you'll start saving every penny you can!  As far as
longevity, the Vortex V1 used by AMS is only at 65% of its potential. I'll
be posting my video soon with a more detail anaylsis of Hp figures, driving,
and long term opinions.  As far as the Eaton being infinitely better than
Vortex, I wouldn't hold my breathe on that speculation.


Russell
http://www.linkline.com/personal/gshock

[...] 33 lines deleted









From gti-vr6-owner@dev.tivoli Fri Nov 20 14:39 CST 1998
From: Jeff Storey <storey@intr>
To: gti-vr6@dev.tivoli
Subject: [gti-vr6] Vortech & Eaton
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:51:59 -0500
 
[I have no affiliation with anyone selling a VR6 supercharger] I've only
been in the AMS car, not an Eaton, so these opinions should be taken
with a grain of salt.

A few things which have been mentioned before, but are important to keep
in mind....

OBD I vs. II: Not sure if it will make a difference with the Eaton kit
ND is developing, but the AMS kit requires conversion to OBD II.  The
situation is even worse if you have a Corrado and/or or a VR6 w/
distributor.  (You're basically S.O.L. for now, the last I heard.)

The AMS kit doesn't affect the intake path after the M.A.F. (ie, easy
return to stock, easy use of Schrick intake manifold). ND's Eaton kit
will require a modification of the TB/Intake area.

AMS kit replaces the factory serpentine belt tensioner (ie, constant
tension, all the time)  Not sure about the ND set-up.  Some folks I've
spoken to were concerned about this aspect.  Not sure I would be, but it
could be an important design difference and I'd research it more
thoroughly.

The Vortech charger may come on a bit later, but I'm not so sure I'd
mind.  I'll admit, I don't have a lot of seat time in modded VR6's,
(I've only got a g-chip, modded airbox) but trying to hook up my car in
any sort of wet weather is an absolute biyatch.  I'm not sure I'd mind
having a stockish VR6 to get me going around town and
shortshifting...then having some serious power come on in the higher
RPM's if I were feeling a little "sporty."

Other considerations: The Vortech will definitely make noise.  Some may
like it, some not.  I LOVED it.  I think AMS should start a 1-900 line,
so even if you can't afford their kit, you can hear it.... ;-)  For
folks on the East Coast, the fact that AWE will be installing and
testing the Eaton (from what I understand) would bode well for
diagnosis, troubleshooting, etc.

Bottom line of MHO....if I had an OBD II car, and I were considering
doing some serious engine mods, I'd likely go for the AMS kit.  If I had
an OBD I car, I'd likely be frightened off by the OBD II conversion and
would head for the Eaton camp.

Luckily, I don't have a ton of cash burning a hole in my wallet.  But if
I did, I'd probably do a 3.1 kit w/ Schrick intake and some sort of
Vortech kit.....and a Quaife. :-)

Jeff
1993 Corrado SLC
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From gti-vr6-owner@dev.tivoli Fri Nov 20 14:42 CST 1998
From: "Patrick Sherman" <patrick@eurospeed>
To: <gshock@linkline>
Subject: RE: [gti-vr6] Vortech AMS Kit
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:33:55 -0800
Cc: "GTI LIST" <gti-vr6@dev.tivoli>
 
The price for the supercharger is $3775.00
$720.00 for shipping
Thank you

Thats what AMS said..

---PATRICK SHERMAN
&#112;atrick&#64;eurospeed<img src=/i/do.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>
http://www.eurospeed.org/
97' JETTA GLX / 30K / Tornado Red

-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Chee [mailto:&#103;shock&#64;linkline<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>]
Sent: Friday, November 20, 1998 10:49 AM
To: &#112;atrick&#64;eurospeed<img src=/i/do.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>
Subject: Re: [gti-vr6] Vortech AMS Kit


patrick, you got it all wrong!  thats $720 for installation.

Russell
http://www.linkline.com/personal/gshock

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From gti-vr6-owner@dev.tivoli Fri Nov 20 19:27 CST 1998
From: U1arunit@aol
To: gti-vr6@dev.tivoli
Subject: Re: [gti-vr6] Vortech & Eaton
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:24:08 EST
 
In a message dated 11/20/98 6:12:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, Jeff Storey
writes:

>
>  The AMS kit doesn't affect the intake path after the M.A.F. (ie, easy
>  return to stock, easy use of Schrick intake manifold). ND's Eaton kit
>  will require a modification of the TB/Intake area.
>
[...] 26 lines deleted
>  Luckily, I don't have a ton of cash burning a hole in my wallet.  But if
>  I did, I'd probably do a 3.1 kit w/ Schrick intake and some sort of
>  Vortech kit.....and a Quaife. :-)
>
>  Jeff
>  1993 Corrado SLC

         Well, I have to agree *completely*. I have a Vortech on my 5.0 Stang
and it is the best investment  have ever made for the car. I am going to get
one for the GTI VR6 as soon as I have the money saved up. (Car fund is
growing!) I love the sound and it has won so many blower comparison tests that
there is no decision to make regarding which one to buy.
         I have what is called the "S-Trim" version on the 5.0 and it makes up
to 20# reliably. I usually run around 12-13# on the street and 14-15# on the
track with race gas.  My compression ratio is stock at 8.8-1. I experience no
detonation on the street and the blower doesn't super-heat the air resulting
in lost power. Belt slippage is sometime an issue due to the high boost,  but
on the GTI with under 9# it should never be a concern.  Even if the tensioning
of the belt is more difficult, I will learn to cope.
         The Vortech has been challenged many times and always come out the
winner. For me, the decision is clear!

My 2 cents...
Regards,
************************************************
Mark Herrly
Pittsburgh, Pa
96 BLACK GTI VR6
&#85;1arunit&#64;aol<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>
You wanna run it..??!!
************************************************

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From gti-vr6-owner@dev.tivoli Fri Nov 20 19:54 CST 1998
From: Christopher Perry <cperry2@home>
To: Dave <N307GTIVR6@worldnet.att>
Subject: Re: [gti-vr6] Vortech AMS Kit
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:49:03 -0800
Cc: Patrick Sherman <patrick@eurospeed>, GTI LIST <gti-vr6@dev.tivoli>,
Organization: @Home Network
 
Dave wrote:
>
> For $720 they will put that sucker on for you as well.
> Sounds like Pat's going to SoCal for the holidays! They say NOT to run
> cams/manifold but I know Momentum did it (SC w/Schrick VG+268's) with better
> results, anyone know whats up with that?
> Dave
> 95 GTI-VR6


The price for the kit is $3775.00

I just sent my cashiers check to Doug @ AMS for that amount
yesterday. Its also $200.00 extra to have it polished which
I also ordered.

The shipping charge is $60.00 for fed ex 2 day. They will
send me the kit then I am going to drive to Cal. w/ the kit
in the trunk for them to install it.  I will save approx.$300.00
dollars on Ca. sales tax this way.

I could probably install the kit myself but I figure I might
as well have them install it for my peace of mind.  Besides,
Doug knows his shit and said he wants my car there for at
least 3 days to make sure everything is done right.

Dec. 10 is the tenative install date.

I couldn't wait for the Eaton kit, besides, that Vortech makes
the sweetest whine you could ever hear.

Chris
'97 VR6 GTi

p.s. Ross, you are gonna get smoked
     so bad I can hardly wait. :)
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From gti-vr6-owner@dev.tivoli Sat Nov 21 12:54 CST 1998
From: "Joshua Murray" <germancarman@worldnet.att>
To: "vr6list" <gti-vr6@dev.tivoli>
Subject: Re: [gti-vr6] *long* Re: Eaton Supercharger/Vortech
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:50:08 -0800
Organization: @Home Network
 
----------
&gt; From: &#65;WE16VR6&#64;aol<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>
&gt; To: &#103;ti-vr6&#64;dev.tivoli<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>
> Subject: [gti-vr6] Re: Eaton Supercharger/Vortech
> Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 11:45 AM
>
&gt; &lt;&lt;From: "Russell" &lt;&#103;shock&#64;linkline<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>&gt;
> Subject: [gti-vr6] Eaton Supercharger/Vortech
>
> I wasn't going to comment on this but...
>

> <<  As far as
> longevity, the Vortex V1 used by AMS is only at 65% of its potential.>>
>
> Yes, but practically at the limit for a stock compression VR6 motor.
8.5lbs
> of boost is really up there with a compression ratio of 10:1 to begin
with.
>
> <<I'll be posting my video soon with a more detail anaylsis of Hp
figures,
> driving,
> and long term opinions.  As far as the Eaton being infinitely better than
> Vortex, I wouldn't hold my breathe on that speculation.>>



Seems a good time to add a few things.... 8-9psi *is* the limit for a stock
VR6 motor. With it's static compression pump gas will not tolerate more
boost. The fact that it works as well as it does on pump gas is testament
to the quality of AMS software. They did a very good job with the kit. The
charger itself makes all sorts of strange noise. From idle to high pitched
whining at certain throttle positions at low load. Once you push the happy
pedal, though, things get fun and the sound is   quite nice. The charger
comes with a  3 year warranty if I remember correctly so I seriously doubt
longevity is going to be an issue. OEM more then likely won't use the
Vortech charger because of noise. OEM doesn't use TT exhaust BFG R1's,
Garrett software..... The list goes on so that's a rather moot point. The
Vortech is certainly more efficient and *is* quite reliable. Being more
efficient than Eaton (Roots) it can run more pressure with less parasitic
loss and less heat being transferred into the intake charge. Less chance of
detonation and more power via denser intake charge. The Eaton can be quite
tough to package Rimmer appears to have done a good job, though. What
happens if you need to go to the dealer for a new transmission? Better keep
a spare manifold. As for the actual driveability of the units I haven't
driven a Rimmer/ND kit. I do have around 100 hours behind the wheel of a
Vortech GTI. The car is plain fast. I've wasted everything from an E36 M3
(sure a NA VR6 will do, you bet ;^)) to 911's. Up hill, down hill 1/4 mile.
It is a great package. We build turbo systems and AMS is a competitor so
don't take this lightly. Traction with the Vortech is good when dry. You
can roll onto the throttle hard in the top of second. Almost instantly
you'll find yourself in third. Fourth. Fifth.... 155mph. Oops. I assure you
other than putting around town the lack of added power below 3k is not a
down side. In terms of performance you never come off boost when you are
racing. If power below 3k was increased significantly traction would
definitely become an issue in first and second. Their kit works well! If
you can tolerate some odd noises emanating from the engine compartment
there are no draw backs AFAIC. Sorry for the long winded post. Good luck



Joshua Murray
Matrix Engineering, Portland OR
503.704.2956 fax 503.227.5941
&#71;ermancarman&#64;worldnet.att<img src=/i/dn.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>
http://coming/ soon.....
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From gti-vr6-owner@ccsi Sat Jun 19 16:00 CDT 1999
From: Anthony Eaton <tamrac@erols>
To: "gti-vr6@cobra.ccsi" <>
Subject: [gti-vr6] Nik Saran Superchargers
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 16:59:01 -0400
 
This one's gonna be a little long-
 Okay Jud, I went through my past issues of PVW and The Golf, and here's
what I came up with.
        Aug 98 issue of PVW-ppg 32-35. Dyno graph on pg 34 indicates max
245HP at 6200-6300rpm, max torque 230lb/ft peaks at 4300 rpm and is
pretty flat till 5500rpm where it slowly falls off. A calculated 44%
increase over the 2.8L standard VR6(according to the article).
        June 99 issue of The Golf ppg 46-54. "the Californian Vortech
unit....is mechanically driven from a pulley off the end of the crank,
and geared up to drive the compressor.  Carbon Fiber ducting is used for
the air pipes, and the ECU is changed to suit the fueling and ignition
needs of the supercharged engine. There's no intercooler or
charge-cooler in this installation, so pipework is relatively
simple......The new ducting and ECU are added, an intake box sits
beneath the front wing.....it's a simple enough conversion for an MK3,
but there are clearance problems with the MK2" for obvious
reasons(e-mail me if you really want to know why).
        March 99 issue of The Golf ppg 94-98. on reliability- "we gear
the pulleys so that it runs at no more than 45,000rpm- it's designed to
cope with up to 55,000rpm. And we've already tested one to well over
80,000 miles in a 1996 Golf VR6. Oh, and it's TUV-approved for Germany
and Switzerland." If I understand correctly, TUV approval is the highest
approval a product can get due to the German's extremely strict
standards. I have more if you want, but I'll refrain from posting to the
list so as to not piss off any more people than I already have with this
post.
Anthony
98 Ginster 8v GTI

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