Frank Williamson wrote:
> saw this on the USENET (r.a.m.vw.w). Looks like VWoA is at war with
> the chip makers. Can any of our VW contacts on this list confirm this
> Subject: Re: VR6 Computer Chip
> From: clanbree@aol<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15> (CLANBREE)
> Date: 1997/10/24
> Message-ID: <19971024173801.NAA05549@ladder01.news.aol<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>>
> Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled
> [More Headers]
> as a dealer technician i have encountered the problem numerous times.
> the problem is that your chip changes your entire advance curve and as
> a result, nulifies the entire knock retard ignition map. the only way
> to correct the problem is to return the car to factory spec.s.
> incidentally.... don't bring your car to the dealer in this condition.
> we have a new directive from our O.T.S.'s to input the V.I.N. of any
> vehicle with a "chip" into the V.I.N.I. system to void the emissions
> >I have a 96 GTI and i put in the Autotech Q-CHIP (which i like MUCH
> >better than the Neuspeed Pchip) anyways, i keep getting the check
> >engine light and evertime i get it checked out it says that there was
> >Excessive Knocking on all SIX cylinders. Does anyone else have this
> >problem with the Autotech Chip?
I asked Garrett about this:
> From aqn Mon Oct 27 09:30:41 1997
> Subject: VWoA voiding warranties..... (fwd)
> To: jglim@fast<img src=/i/dn.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>
> Hi Garrett,
> I am on the gti-vr6 mailing list. Someone posted the following
> article [the article on "VWoA voiding warranties....."] (which was posted on the Usenet newsgroup
> rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled. How do your chips deal with
> the "knock retard ignition map"?
> [Frank Williamson's post deleted.]
... and he replied as follows (reposted w/ his permission).
> From jglim@fast<img src=/i/dn.gif border=0 width=35 height=15> Mon Oct 27 13:05 CST 1997
> To: firstname.lastname@example.org<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>
> Subject: Re: VWoA voiding warranties..... (fwd)
> Hi Andy,
> Actually that is one of the reasons people have really enjoyed using my
> chip. I did not overtime it like mad. Else you lose HP, fast. I have
> seen this over and over again at the drags. Almost all tuned OBDII vr6
> chips I have tested have too much timing in my opinion. Of course I am
> biased and very careful.
> But the 2L OBDII, that is a whole nother program. Most mapping is very
> retarded, even compared to older OBD programs. I guess VW figured that
> market did not care as much about power. Maybe true, but pretty sad.
> There is a lot of HP and torque to be gained on the 2L chip, even by just
> using factory mapping out of an older program.
> I read the mapping in degrees advance, not as hex code (what some others
> do, I don't know). So I know what maotors are getting timed to. I set up
> all my vr6 whether OBD or OBDII all the same. The motor likes the same
> settings regardless. From what I have found. Some are timing this chip
> pretty aggressively. But the factory was very aggressive with the std
> OBDII vr6 program. I guess some tuners figure give it more. But that is
> not necessarily what any motor needs. It is critical to have optimal
> timing that does not ride the knock sensors all the time for a given fuel
> octane, and a fuel air ratio that is correct. This is where the art of
> chip programming comes into play. That is why not all chips are created
> equal. Sure it might feel good. But is it right, maybe? Don't get me
> wrong, there are some good chips out there. I am just telling you what you
> can do inside these things, and why there are differences. It is easy to
> hurt what VW/Bosch has spent many hours perfecting. That is why you should
> be leery of people who calm big HP on a chip alone. VW/Bosch is getting
> very good at getting it closer to perfect. (Now if the chip controls the
> Turbo, then HP could really improve.)
> The mapping I am using is very similar to the most aggressive EURO chip I
> have seen. I could not get my cars to drag faster than that chip. The
> timing is perfect, in my opinion. It is all about how much time you spend
> on a chip. Sure if you give it more, it feels better, but it does not make
> it faster necessarily in the q-mile. Esp. in the days of Knock sensors. I
> TRY not to program on the max end of the knock sensors capability. You can
> program it out easily, but you really have to give it a lot. One can go
> past the limits of the quick adjustment of the knock sensors. Tuners may
> do this. I experienced this on a very SAD 16v 2L chip for my car(I won't
> mention the name, so dont ask please). That is what drove me to start this
> whole programming mess myself. Some tuners are giving it 30-32 degrees
> total advance. But 4 valve motors don't like that much timing. That goes
> for almost all cars!
> But I will say, every VW I have done customly, the knock sensors protected
> the motor even with the craziest maps. It will retard the timing so hard,
> the car falls flat on its face. So don't worry too much. But anything
> could happen, I should still say.
> If there is an error code from over detonation, the chip should be remapped
> for that fuel octane. I program chips for some countries where fuel can be
> suboptimal. I map those cars differently. I have to.
> I have yet to get an overadvanced error code on a chip. But there can
> always be a first time.
> On the vr6, I did advance timing a fair amount at part throttle, for better
> fuel economy and throttle response. But I also adjusted the fuel carefully
> to compensate for this much like the factory does.
> It sounds like VW is just leery of anything they can't control. And maybe
> rightfully so. Maybe this is true about the warranty. I would reccomend
> you, talk to your dealer, before you bring it in. Maybe write to VWoA, and
> state your opinion. BMW will let you buy performance chips. "But a BMW is
> a sports car!" Yea right, and VWs vr6 GTi was not marketed/built like
> that? I think VW really should not get to wrapped up in this whole thing.
> Most of this is just like replacing a carburetor jet and recurving the
> ignition distributor. It is very safe to do, especially since VW uses
> knock sensors! Only in recent years, we as car owners/mechanics/racers
> have not had access to such adjustments. We are taking this back. I guess
> they don't want us to have this capability any longer.
> Now, I know everyone has their opinion. This just mine and this is what I
> have experienced.
> I hope that this helps clear up some of the confusion. Maybe this makes it
> worse. That is my 2 cents.
> Garrett A. Lim
> jglim@fast<img src=/i/dn.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>
Andy Nguyen \ aqn@tivoli<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15> \ Tivoli Systems, Austin, TX \ 512.436.8229
Ave, XTela, morituri te salutamus.