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G11 coolant vs. G48 coolant?

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[gti-vr6] G-11, does it exist? h.young1@genie Fri, 25 Sep 98 19:59:00 GMT
[Fwd: [gti-vr6] G-11, does it ex] Arthur Emerson <emerson@eideti> Tue, 29 Sep 1998 04:08:03 -0400
[gti-vr6] G-11, does it exist h.young1@genie Wed, 30 Sep 98 05:54:00 GMT
RE: [gti-vr6] G-11, does it ex h.young1@genie Thu, 1 Oct 98 04:22:00 GMT
[gti-vr6] G-11, does it exist h.young1@genie Fri, 2 Oct 98 04:13:00 GMT

From h.young1@genie Fri Sep 25 19:59:00 GMT 98
From: h.young1@genie
To: gti-vr6@dev.tivoli
Subject: [gti-vr6] G-11, does it exist?
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 98 19:59:00 GMT
Here's one for ya'all to chew on.  BTW, if you have G-12 coolant, this may
not interest you.  If you love VW-service-is-incompetant stories, it might.

I decided that I wanted to flush out the G-11 coolant in my '95 and refill
with same (I won't go into why I don't want to switch to G-12).  Anybody
here ever try to get G-11 coolant?  Anyone ever have a container of it in
their hand?  I'd like to know where it came from.

I've been to three VW dealers in the St. Louis area and NONE of them have
heard of G-11 coolant.  As far as they are concerned, it doesn't exist.
They looked at me like I was nutz until I showed them page 94 of the owners
manual that specifies it and the coolant tank cap that specifies it.  I even
listened in to the phone conversation one parts manager had with the Chicago
VW parts warehouse.  THEY have never heard of G-11.

What they have heard of is either G-48 coolant, which is blue but is NOT
"lifetime," and G-12 (red), which we all are familiar with and IS
"lifetime".  They all tell me that G-48 is the only thing that was used
until the switch to G-12.

So, faced with this confusion, I called VWoA.  They will "research it" for
me and call me back.  Sheesh.

Now, in the mean time, can anyone here clear this up?  Todd?  Deecee?

Any of you want to place bets on what VWoA tells me?

I thought maybe the G-11 in the manual could be a misprint, but then there
it is again on the filler tank.  I do know this -- if there really is a G-
11, I'm going to lambast VW for such poor communication with their dealers
regarding something like this.  Same goes if there is no G-11.  WTF is in
the manual and on the tank for?

Had to share -- thanks.


From emerson@eideti Tue Sep 29 04:08:03 -0400 1998
From: Arthur Emerson <emerson@eideti>
To: gti-vr6@dev.tivoli
Subject: [Fwd: [gti-vr6] G-11, does it ex]
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 04:08:03 -0400
[Forwarded per request of sender.]

&#104;.young1&#64;genie<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15> wrote:
> Arthur wrote:
> > Now, I'm not Mike Potter the undisputed VW parts god, but I'll make
> > an educated guess that the VW part number for G11 is: G 011 A8D A1.
> Nope.  Another list member, Clay Peyton, had a container of G11 in his
> garage, answered my post and emailed me the part number:  ZVW 237 104.
> BTW, the G48 coolant is:  ZVW 237 105.  I happen to have a gallon of that.
> See below.
> > Name names!  I'm collecting dealer service blunders, and this one
> > is serious enough to cause major engine damage.
> Name #1:  Suntrup VW, St. Louis.  Their parts guys had never heard of G11.
> Their 30-year VW master mechanic had never heard of G11.  I listened in
> while they called the (name #2) Chicago VW parts warehouse (for all parts
> distributed in the midwest).  THEY had NEVER HEARD of G11!
> Name #3:  "The Dean Team VW", aka Dick Dean VW in Kirkwood, MO (suburb of
> St. Louis).  About six months ago I wanted to buy some G11 and they told me
> they'd never heard of it.  In fact they insisted I needed G48 and sold me a
> gallon of that.  I never used the stuff because I was sure it was wrong.  I
> emailed this list back then about it, emailed Deecee about it, but got no
> responses.  I still have the unopened gallon and the receipt.  I will be
> going back there to return the G48 and talk to the owners.
> I'm sure it could have caused problems if I had not trusted my instincts and
> gone ahead and put the G48 in my system.  Thanks to this list, I've learned
> to be suspicious of dealer "knowledge".
> > I hope you're not expecting a call back in the next few months. :-(
> Nope.  But thanks to the list members, I have the answer I needed.  I'm
> going to have me some fun with ordering part number ZVW 237 104 from a
> couple places.
> Thanks for your response and thanks to the other listers who responded.

From h.young1@genie Wed Sep 30 05:54:00 GMT 98
From: h.young1@genie
To: gti-vr6@dev.tivoli
Subject: [gti-vr6] G-11, does it exist
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 05:54:00 GMT
The hunt for G11 -- latest in the saga (or, what's the definition of

While out at lunch today, I got voice mail from a VW/Audi customer service
rep at VWoA.  The message stated that the coolant I needed for my '95 GTI-
VR6 was "definately G11".  Okie-dokie.

In the mean time, I'd emailed an order for G11 to Suntrup VW dealership
( specifying ONLY the part number ZVW-237-104.  They call me
at work about an hour after VWoA calls and tell me ZVW-237-104 is the part
number for G11 coolant (DUH) and BTW, hadn't I been in there looking for
that last Friday?   I said, "Yes," and reminded the parts dude that he'd
told me there was "no such thing" as G11 and he'd never heard of it, blah
blah.  He then tells me that ZVW-237-104 has been replaced by ZVW-237-105,
the G48 coolant, and they have that in stock and come and get it.

I tell the parts dude that I just got word from VWoA Customer Service that
what I need is "definately G11".  The parts dude tells me that VWoA doesn't
know what they are talking about. (Possible, I grant you.)  I remind him
that he told me there was no such thing as G11 even though it is in the
owner's manual, on the filler tank, and there is a part number for it
(tactful, eh?).  I also remind him he told me that G48 is not "lifetime." I
inform him that G11 is "lifetime", and so, how can G48 replace it?

Next, I ask the big question:  Are the two compatable?  Will there be
problems if I try to add G48 to G11?  He stammers, finally admitting he
doesn't know. #@$%&@#!!!

I called the VWoA Customer Service person back and left voice mail asking
about G11 vs. G48.  We'll wait and see.  Hopefully I won't be out if/when
they call back so I can fully discuss this and share my innermost feelings.



From h.young1@genie Thu Oct 1 04:22:00 GMT 98
From: h.young1@genie
To: gti-vr6@dev.tivoli
Subject: RE: [gti-vr6] G-11, does it ex
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 98 04:22:00 GMT
Richard Adams wrote:

> waitaminute.  G-11 needs flushing periodically and is a lesser quality
> coolant than G-12, according to the archives.
> But G-11 lifetime? No.

Your wrong and right at the same time, Rich.  VW touts G-11 as being
"lifetime" (note all my references to it as "lifetime" have been in
quotation " " in order to signify VW's point of reference on this).  Says so
right in the '95 manual on page 94.  They again said this to me on the phone
the other day.  So, you're wrong -- it is "lifetime".


And, your right.  It is generally agreed upon here and in the archives that
"G-11 needs flushing periodically and is a lesser quality coolant than G-
12."  My belief that it needs periodic flush and fill is why I went looking
for it in the first place.  Hell, I'm skeptical about the G-12 being

I do not want to switch to the G-12.  There is no evidence yet that it is
better, though it probably is.  The main thing for me is I won't have to
worry about any incompatibility -- any old coolant lurking in a passage or
gasket -- if I refill with G-11.  I figure I'll be OK if I flush and fill
every 18 to 24 months with G-11.

If it exits.  :-)

As far as the G-48 goes, it may be a replacement and be OK.  But, remember
the dealer didn't even know about G-11 -- "Never heard of it."  So, I don't
trust them knowing squat.  They told me all VW's came with G-48 until G-12
came out.  That is definately wrong.  G-11 was used in '95's and (some)
96's.  And they couldn't tell me if G-11 and G-48 were compatable.  Would
you be ready to trust the dealer and add the G-48 to your car before you
were sure?


From h.young1@genie Fri Oct 2 04:13:00 GMT 98
From: h.young1@genie
To: gti-vr6@dev.tivoli
Subject: [gti-vr6] G-11, does it exist
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 98 04:13:00 GMT
VWoA called back today and gave me the part number for G-11 -- the one I
already had (ZVW-237-104).  I tried to explain that the dealers don't know
what that is, no longer carried that, had G-48 instead (ZVW-237-105).  I
gave them that part number.  VWoA had never heard of G-48 and that part
number did not show up in their computer!  Again EMPHASIZED that my main
concern was/is are the same and/or compatable because the dealers sure
didn't know. They said that they'd call back.

Two hours later they called back and said that the part number I gave them
for G-48 was G-11.  The two were the same even though they now have a
different part number and a different "G" number on the container.  Why'd
they change the numbers?  Still sounds fishey to me.

I am now going to have to ass-u-me that all this is right.  It still
astounds me that three dealership part's dept's had never heard of G-11,
VWoA had never heard of G-48, and that they change a part number and letter
designator on a substance (coolant) but make no change to the coolant.

I give up.  I also wish Arthur Emerson all the luck of the gods in dealing
with these people.


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